UFO Disclosure/Contact, Part 15 - Ken Klein

C. KEN KLEIN, author, theologian and film maker; he was also a college football player and refugee of the NFL, Ken boasts that he is the last Jewish defensive back to play in the NFL. He was raised in North Hollywood around many TV and film stars in the 1950s, but his interest in film production and writing came later in his life, when he stumbled onto the writings of the ancient prophets. Over the last two decades Ken has appeared on hundreds of radio and television shows and is on the A-list for many talk show producers. He has a quick wit, deep ideas, concepts that provoke a listening audience to pay attention!


Q: We want to ask about your latest book, "America: Globalism and the False Prophet," and the film project you are currently working on. I'd like to start by asking you about the Royal Society meeting just held and asking the question: Are we alone in the universe? I have over a dozen newspaper headlines coming out of those meetings just in the past ten days. What's going on?


A: Well, this is a huge question. One of the things I discovered through a study of the Great Pyramid was that there was a time in the history of the earth, around 3100 B.C., called the Age of the Gods. And as you study the amazing fine points, you discover that there's no way that the people involved in the architectural design of the Great Pyramid could have had the intelligence at that time to build into the pyramid all of the design features and the difficulties of those designs that required amazing engineering prowess.



As you study this, and look at some of the ancient historians, namely let's take Josephus. He talked about people coming from the lineage of Seth that would build a monument, and it's even in Isaiah 19, built "unto the Lord of hosts." Hosts are angels, and what most people don't understand, especially the Christian world, is that God doesn't directly visit the earth. He visits the earth through proxy - his representatives of himself. That's why we find in Exodus that the law, the 10 Commandments, was given to Moses. And the word used there is 'elohim' which is rendered 'gods.' Small 'g'. So God brought the commandments to Moses through 'gods,' or angels.



In the NT it says, 'and the law was given by angels,' and in the Egyptian era it seems that there was more access. There were messengers that came and gave to Enoch, who was from the lineage of Seth, the architectural knowledge which was used to build the Great Pyramid. So, the film I produced a while ago explains all these things in great detail. There was so much science and mathematics in the Great Pyramid that had to come from some kind of celestial intervention by God, or angels, to the earth. And we know - we see in the life of Elijah, he was taken up in a fiery chariot. Well, so was Enoch taken up; the Bible says he was a righteous man, so Enoch never died. And we also know in I Chronicles 28:18 when David was speaking to his son, Solomon, when Solomon was given the charge to build the temple, that he was to make a copy or model of the chariot of the cherubim. So we know at least one angel, which were the cherubim or the covering angels.


Q: A couple of weeks ago the Hubble Telescope observed a mysterious X-shaped 'something.' Scientists don't believe that it's a comet, but it is moving at something like 90 million miles from the earth. It's got what looks like streamers or something behind it. One of the contributing writers for Discovery News, Ray Villard, said, "I've seen thousands of astronomical images over my career, but this is one of the few absolute jaw droppers. A flying X pattern with trailing streamers. Whatever it is, nothing like it has ever before been seen in the heavens." Is this possibly one of your angelic crafts? And, by the way, even some people who do believe that UFOs have something to do with angels and demons - there are still two camps. There are those who think that the UFO itself IS the angel or the demon. And then you've got people who have a 'nuts and bolts' kind of approach to an advanced science, like Stanton Friedman, believes that whatever crash landed at Roswell was a literal nuts and bolts kind of transport device. Let's keep this in angelology, but if these are angels, is what we're seeing the angel itself, or are the angels inside that thing?


A: I think they're both. It's not an either/or proposition. These things can morph into all kinds of forms [Exactly]. We're talking about intelligences - that were once under the lordship of the Morning Star and I think that's an interesting concept, because we know that Jesus is called the Morning Star; we also know that Lucifer, he's the Morning Star. So there's some connection between Jesus and Lucifer that had to do with the morning star. And, basically, what I believe that was, was an 'office' over a certain group of creator angels, that we don't understand yet.



There were three angel groups that came into our galaxy: 1) the Cherubim, which were the covering angels, which is an interesting concept because why would you need to 'cover' something - like other angels, or anything, for that matter - unless there were many wars in heaven, and we only experience the war that is mentioned in Rev. 12, that there was 'war in the heavens.' And we find information about this war that took place, but it was the covering angels that protected this group of creator angels. In other words, they 'had their backs,' because there were many attacks going on. 2) Seraphim angels, who basically are the scribes, or the people that record the histories of the universe, and galaxies. And that's why it says 'and all the books were opened up,' because it's the Seraphim that are over those books. 3) The third group is called the Ophan, and they're mentioned in Ezekiel 1:10. Plural is Ophanim, and they are the creator angels. Those are the angels that were under the Morning Star office, that were swept away when Lucifer was granted permission to move from his Cherubim office - to the Ophanim office. So, they had great intelligence, and they were creators. They were involved with the creation code, and Lucifer stole these codes. So that caused a war, which is a long story.



But, remember, these were creators, and they have all kinds of abilities. And they were swept away with Lucifer. Most people think those are the demons - and they're not demons. There's a difference between demons and fallen angels. Fallen angels have bodies. One of the reasons that Lucifer and the fallen creator angels have bodies is because they were sentenced by the seven spirits of God in Rev. 1:2, which was a holy commission to take on human form. They refused. So, they have physical bodies, too.



But they also can transform to light. We know that from the Bible, that says these fallen beings come as angels of light. They can also transform to holographic images and to physical bodies. Now, the demons actually are entities that want to possess human bodies. The fallen angels do not; they refused to do that. But the demons want that. Those demons are the spirits of the Ophanim and the Nephilim, and we find in Genesis and throughout the OT these giants - those were killed in the flood because the whole gene pool was polluted. But, anyway, the spirits of those beings seek to possess anything they can - anything that has a warm body - human, animal. You see Jesus throwing demons out of the demoniac and into pigs. Another interesting story, but there's a difference between the fallen angels that have form, and the demons which come from these strange concoctions of genetic brew that was polluted, and want to possess bodies. So, we need to be clear in our thinking about these things.


Q: You also have a new film series right now called "Angel Wars?"


A: Yes, I do, and "Angel Wars and the Fallen Creator" - that just came out in the last week. We just did a show with George Noory, and I can't tell you how many people wanted to get this. And what's interesting about this teaching in which I talk about the angel wars - it deals more in depth with what really happened amongst the angels. Because it's in the Bible, but we're so myopic and so locked into linear thought that we can't really see it. It's kind of like ... there are pieces of the puzzle all over the place in the Bible. You've got to have the objectivity to see it, and then you can see how the pieces come together.



But what's interesting is that not long after that came out, this fellow that had heard me about a year ago had been trying to reach me, because he was experiencing strange anomalies in New Orleans [the obvious place for such things!] He had been laid off from his job; he was a guy that worked in oil companies and did soundings of the ocean floor for drilling purposes, and so at night he would go out on his job, and he started seeing things. He started writing to me, and I didn't listen because I get hundreds of letters. And, finally, I started looking at some of the stuff he had shot, and it was really bad stuff in terms of quality of photography, but I was able to see enough that blew my mind. So, I jumped on an airplane and went down there, and we started seeing manifestations of these fallen angels - we caught them on camera.



In fact, it's such a powerful thing to prove that there's demonic realms and a fallen angel realm by capturing these things that we're going to do a documentary on it down in New Orleans. We know where they're manifesting, so we're taking a camera crew, and we're going to be interviewing a lot of people down there in New Orleans. I'm getting letters from people all over New Orleans, who have been seeing these same things since the Katrina Hurricane. So, it's really strange, amazing, and it's not that I'm fascinated with it, but it's just that proving a realm of darkness makes it a lot easier for people to come to grips that we do live in a spiritual world. And the only way to be safe is to know Christ. To come to Jesus, so that you have the ability to discern and discriminate between what is light and what is darkness. I wouldn't suggest anybody do this unless they're pretty grounded in the scripture [Critically important point. The demonic is not something people should mess with, unless they have a lot of knowledge and discernment in this area].


Q: Also want to get your input on recent Vatican astronomer comments that sound eerily similar in some ways to what you're saying, that ETs are already here and interacting with people, and that some of the highest people in the Vatican know of it. What do you think that the Vatican has been working so diligently in the last few years to position itself against this issue in this way? What is your gut feeling about it?


A: That's a tough question to answer because I'm not privy to what they talk about there in the Vatican. I could only speculate on it, so when you say 'gut feeling,' I think that's an interesting .. you know, our spirits, the reality of ourselves in our solar plexus, is our instinct or our spirit, so you never know if you're being objective in doing something like that, or whether you're in a mind confusion about it. I honestly don't know how to objectify the answer to that question, except to say that we do live in a spiritual world.


Q: Well, let's move from astro biology for a moment to the related field of astro archeology. You know, in recent years, what appears most famously are these structures on Mars. The Cydonia Face, for instance, was real hot for a while. A few years ago, we interviewed Dr. Thomas Flandern (sp?) as well as others in this field, people who had a special emphasis in Celestial Mechanics and that sort of thing, from Yale, etc. And I remember when I asked Dr. Flandern what were the chances of those structures in the Cydonia Region of Mars - the face, the five-sided pyramid, what they called the 'city complex,' all that - arising by chance or natural geological formation, would be. I didn't realize that they had actually done a statistical or mathematical probability on this; and he said that the scientists that he was working with had concluded that the combined odds against what was there in the Cydonia Region arising by chance were 1,000 billion billion to one - so that in their minds there was no doubt that those structures were artificial. Now, there have been new high resolution images that came from NASA since then, and they kind of pooh-poohed that idea. Other people say that it's all just a conspiracy, that NASA's covering it up. And the bigger question I think, is do you think there is a chance that extra-terrestrial archaeological evidence will ever be found, providing physical remains of other intelligences having once been among the planets?


A: Wow. You know, I don't know the answer to that. I mean, how can we know the answer to that? [He's obviously not a scientist or he'd have an answer - whether he had one or not.] I tend to wonder what would be the motivation to create anything that would be visible from the earth, from - let's just say - the realm of fallen angels? The only thing I can think of is that this whole thing about who we are, on this planet ... I mean we run around every day trying to survive. Half the world is hungry, and most of life has been taken up with finding food, and getting from one day to the next. And we hardly have time to think about "Who am I?" "Why am I here?" "How did I get here, and where am I going?" And all I can tell you is that the forces of darkness are trying to keep us from knowing the answers to those questions [...yes...].


Q: Well, but if a discovery like that was made, would it support some of what you're saying? In other words, that there was a past celestial war? Lucifer was cast down from out of the heavens. If something like that was found, could theologians come forward and say this actually substantiates the biblical story that there was an angel war, and these are remnants of maybe at one time was part of their civilization?


A: Well, that's what I was trying to get at. The only thing I can come to grips with in a speculative answer to that - because I don't have the objective answer - I would say that the only reason that they would do something like that would be to deceive us. To keep us from understanding who we are, and what God's trying to do with us, in overcoming. Because life in the universe ... and on earth ... is all about overcoming. [Wow. This guy keeps his eye on the ball and isn't distracted ... amazing. I think he's hit the nail right on the head here, at least theologically, which is where we should always be coming from.] It's all about overcoming our physical self. So anything that the fallen angels can do to swerve us from coming to that recognition, is plausible to me [not only plausible, but probable]. So if there were remains found, the only thing I could imagine for why it would be done was to get humans to look at it and think about extra-terrestrial life in a way that is contrary to the way God wants us to understand it. [ Bingo.] And, Lucifer ... remember, is a powerful archangel. We have no understanding, or very little understanding of what that means and how powerful a creative talent he has, to do what he does to swerve us from the truth. So, even though it may be true, I would think it would be a deception that would keep us from understanding who we are. [That's the most accurate answer I've ever heard to this question. I agree totally. Everyone else ... including the Vatican, and the scientists, get off track into this whole area of physical ETs and UFOs ... just as Satan LOVES for us to do. It is all a distraction from the spiritual aspect and what God wants us to be doing.]


Q: We're going to run out of time here, Ken. How can people learn more about you, your books, your films?



A: Oh, well they can just Google me .. Ken Klein, and I come up first there, and that will take you to my website. I have lots of stuff on my website, the films I've produced, my writings. We have an ancient translation of Genesis I that people should read. We have a free tour of the interior of the Great Pyramid, and we are putting out a 7-minute truncated version of what we're producing that will come out in the Fall, or the New Orleans anomaly. So, you can get a lot of stuff from my website.



His website is: http://www.kenkleinproductions.net/, and it's very interesting. Lots of free things, too.



________________________________End



COMMENTS: This may have been my favorite interview so far in the series, because Ken Klein got to the bottom line of the entire subject, which is that all of this provocative stuff about ETs and UFOs, crafts, etc., is ALL designed to deceive and fascinate the human being ... and to detract us from the spiritual side of things, reading God's Word and seeking to know what the Lord wants us to be doing for Him. This UFO phenomenon is the greatest deception of all the many deceits we are faced with.



Mankind has not changed; we are still always seeking for signs and wonders, just as the people of the First Century did. Satan knows that - and is using it to deceive us in this age.

Royal Heir

UFO Disclosure/Contact, Part 14 - B. Keith Robinson

Continuing information from a recent seminar, "Official Disclosure: Prepare For Contact," featuring top researchers, ex-government agents, world-famous field investigators, physicists and theologians. The post
contains info directly from the featured speaker. Questioner is Thomas Horn whose website is: www.raidersnewsnetwork.com. Any comments by me will be in brackets []. Very light editing done on Q&As.

B. KEITH ROBINSON, author, lecturer. Director of the Creations Science Institute of Milwaukee, WI. He is a public school educator, musician, and speaker.

Q: I would like to get your take on the recent Royal Society meetings. I know that you've done research in astrobiology. Do you believe there really is anything to UFOs and/or aliens?

A: That depends on one's philosophy and worldview. If you believe in evolution then it does make perfect sense to believe there is other life out there, because if it could happen on earth, then what's to say it couldn't happen in the vast universe? However, if you believe that we, and this planet, were uniquely created by God, and that he created the rest of the universe for us and our enjoyment, there is no reason to believe that there are other intelligent life forms out there. So, really, the whole question of whether you believe in aliens comes from whether or not you believe in evolution.

Q: I want to get your input on Vatican astronomers. We've had comments from Fr Jose Gabriel Funes talking about a certain possibility of intelligent life in the universe, that these could be our space brothers, and it won't interfere with either the Catholic faith or the authority of the Church. Funes was just the latest in a whole string of Vatican astronomers over the past couple of years. Guy Cosmonolgo, writing his 50-page booklet, "Intelligent Life in the Universe;" Msgr Balducci; even Fr Malachi Martin hinting some years ago that there was something approaching the earth. What do you make of the Vatican's interest in all of this, even hosting a conference in which they were discussion the search for ETs ? What is the importance of the Vatican's acceptance of aliens?

A: I think it's a sign of the times that the Church is beginning to compromise its message and not taking the scriptures, the Word of God, as being literal truth. It's starting to really compromise with the world. I think this is just one of the cases where the Vatican is trying to compromise its position. If they would take the Bible in its most easily understood interpretation, in my opinion they wouldn't be coming up with these conclusions. I think they are catering to the politically correct, and they want to seem like they're modern, they're up to date. I've been following this whole thing for the last couple of years, and I find it fascinating that Fr Funes asks: "How can we rule out that life may have developed elsewhere?" He also says: "Just as there is a multitude of creatures on earth, there could be other beings - even intelligent ones - created by God. This does not contradict faith, because we cannot put limits on God's creative freedom." What's interesting about that is that he says we cannot put limits on God's creative freedom; but if we take God at his word, we are not putting the limits on God. We're just letting God speak for himself in telling us what he did. Some examples from the Bible that seem to contradict the Vatican: Isaiah 45:18: "For thus saith the Lord, who created the heavens, who is God; who formed the earth and made it; who has established it; who did not create it in vain; who formed it to be inhabited. I am the Lord, and there is no other." So, it talks there about the fact that he created the earth for a specific purpose, to be inhabited. Also Romans 8:22: "The whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now because of Adam's sin." There are some theological implications to the belief in ET's. The Bible says the whole creation groans with birth pangs. Well, if there are aliens out there, are they free from sin? And if they are, then they would be suffering for Adam's sin that happened here on earth. In fact, Funes even says that they might be free of original sin, so he even acknowledges that point. Did they sin, and if they did, then did God appear to them, as he did to us, in the form of Jesus Christ? Did he go to their planets, and was he one of them, and did he die for them as he did here on earth? There are issues like that. You really get into muddy theological waters when you start asking those kinds of questions.

Q: And something that could even get a bit spookier, and this from Funes, too: the question that these aliens, if they contact us, may not even have been part of the fall and the need of redemption and therefore might even be morally superior to us - almost angelic in that sense - and may be able to show us the way. That's kind of scary. I've got five headlines in front of me that have come out since the Royal Society meeting. One is from The Guardian: "Life But Not As We Know It." One is from the Times: "What if The Aliens Decide They Don't Like Us?" One is from the Associated French Press: "Is Calling ET A Smart Move?" The Telegraph: "Royal
Astronomer Says Aliens May Be Staring Us In The Face." Why suddenly do you have a prestigious scientific body that is now interested in discussing the same thing the Vatican has been talking about? Are we poised for an imminent disclosure?

A: In the research that I have done it seems very plausible that what we're encountering and what we see happening ... the Lord is preparing us for the end times. And people are really looking at this evidence for aliens and are misunderstanding. It very well could be demonic activity, and I think it could very well set things up for official disclosure, where the governments of the world start telling everybody we have contact with aliens, etc., and it turns out they're really demons masquerading as aliens, to defeat people. That wouldn't surprise me at all. I think the fact that you have such an influential religious organization as the Vatican coming out and saying these things, is preparing people so that when it does happen they won't be surprised. I think that's a very likely possibility.

Q: Any possibility that they actually already know something we don't know? Balducci wrote extensively that aliens are already interacting with the earth and that some of the Vatican leaders are aware of it. He has never been reproved or corrected by the Vatican for making those comments. Even if it's deception, do you think that the Vatican could have in their possession information contact already? Something that they may be using to try to prepare the world for something that may be right around the corner? Am I reaching too far with that?

A: It's very possible that could be the case. It almost seems like too much of a coincidence if it's not the case, that they're putting out these articles, that they're holding a conference, things like that. 50-100 years ago there was not even a discussion about aliens, and now all of a sudden you get mainstream scientists who before would have been ridiculed. But now they just come out and talk about aliens existing as if it's a done deal, as if we already know about it. So, it wouldn't surprise me.

Q: You're a music director, you're a public school school educator, you're a terrific novelist. What made you decide to write a series of science fiction novels that talk about creation and evolution, but also talk about astrobiology?

A: In many ways, what we've been talking about is the answer to that question, because I believe that there's so much deception out there, particularly in regards to evolution. I've been studying about creation and evolution for 12-13 years, and I can tell you there's a lot of misinformation out there; and I'd even say deception. There's a lot of stuff that's being touted as proof of evolution, but it's not at all, when you study it. I'm talking about studying it from secular sources. When you study their science journals, they actually come out and tell you that these so-called arguments for evolution are really not as solid as they indicate. In fact, sometimes they go in opposite directions and they disprove evolution. So, when I started researching all of this, I said people need to hear this information. While there are large creation organizations out there that are doing a great job of getting that information to the public, there's a whole ton of people out there who don't like to read informational books or watch informational DVDs, but when it comes to reading fiction they would pick it up and devour it. Because of all the research I've done in creation and evolution, I wanted to try to get it out to an audience that may not normally be interested in reading informational books. So I repackaged it into action adventure science fiction stories.

Q: Tell us a little bit about the plot line of the latest book "Pyramid of the Ancients."

A: [Fascinating...I won't go into all of the discussion here. He writes TRUTH as fiction...I may read it myself ... I believe it's a trilogy. Most adults do not know this information, so it would be good for any age.] There's a difference between 'operational' and 'origin' science. Operational science is repeatable in a laboratory. It's the science that put a man on the moon, that gives us computers, airplanes, the technology to study micro organisms and things like that. You can repeat it in a lab. But, origin science is dealing with the origin of life, and that's a one time event. It's not something that you can repeat in a lab. Even if we could create life in a lab today all that would prove is that we could do it today with our intelligence. It doesn't mean that it happened millions of years ago from random process. Also, when you study DNA - there's nothing we can create in science that can create a code system randomly. Because of the complexity of a single cell they estimate that the chances of life coming into being randomly, just a single cell would be 10 to the 40,000th power. And there is only a 10 to the 80th number of atoms in the entire universe, according to the estimates. So the stuff in my books is based on real science, and is well documented in footnotes. But it's also an easy read.

Q: Several publishers we know have read the books and say they consider them to be among some of the best fiction they've ever read, so that's quite a statement. You're a fantastic novelist. And you call the genre of your books "apologetics fiction." (!) Explain that.

A: It means a real defense, with real arguments, which are incorporated into the story with footnotes. WEBSITE: www.apologeticsfiction.com (Includes books of other authors, too.)

Q: Why do you believe that the mainstream scientific explanations continue to be in error?

A: If you have a couple of hours...It goes back to what I said before, about operational and origin science. I have two talked to several evolutionists, and they've learned that line; they don't understand anything different. As a public school teacher, I've looked at the biology textbooks, and they are filled with a lot of ... it's a mixed bag of things.

For instance, they talk about Darwin's finches, and how he observed on the Galapagos Islands all these finches with different beaks, and when there was a dry season the beak size grew bigger because only the finches with the larger beaks survived, so he said natural selection occurred. The problem is, that even if we observe that kind of thing it doesn't prove evolution. All it does is show that there's genetic variation within a species - the difference between what some people call micro evolution and macro evolution. Micro is variation within a species, based on environment; natural selection is real, we observe that. It's observable science, within a species ['after its own kind'].

However, to speculate that over millions of years, one creature can turn into another - now you've just stepped out of the realm of operational science, and you've stepped into the realm of interpretational origin science. You're drawing speculations that are all about interpretation. So, with Darwin's finches, it's all interpretation and speculation based on what we do observe. But what's interesting about that scenario - that argument - is that secular science says that when the rains came back, the finches reverted back to their original status, which just goes to show that it's not a progressive change. You're not adding more and more to a creature to make it change into something else.

In fact, science knows by observation that there are barriers. They spent millions or dollars to breed horses, but you get to a certain point that no matter how many millions you spend in breeding, you cannot get a racehorse to go any faster. There's a certain level that God put in there which you cannot cross. The evolutionists blur that line, and when you study what's in the textbook, it doesn't support it. You can talk about geology and how they look at the fossils and layers of rock, and the creationists' biblical explanation of it all being laid down quickly under flood conditions actually matches the observable science. For example they've found sea-going animal fossils on top of Mt Everest and the whole thing was covered under water. They found the fossilized tracks of animals that are going up through multiple layers of rock as if trying to escape being buried alive, as these layers were laid down very quickly. You find fossilized trees that stick up through multiple layers of rock. The list goes on and on.

Q: What about dinosaurs? They appear in your story a lot.

A: This is just to whet people's appetites. I would encourage you to just go on the internet and just Google "dinosaurs and humans" or things like that and just look at some of the alternatives to the creationist perspective on it, and all of this will make more sense. In "Pyramids of the Ancients," I give a website that people can go to, to see some of what I'm talking about. They have found cave paintings of animals that looked just like dinosaurs. There's pottery, there's stones with pictures etched on them.

When you really understand that the word 'dinosaur' is a modern invention; it's only been around since 1841 I believe it was, then you start to look at some other things like even the passage in Job, I believe it's chapters 39-40, where he talks about the behemoth and the Leviathan. He talks about creatures that sound massive ... it's tail swings like a cedar tree. Modern translations will say it could be an elephant or a hippo, neither of which has a tail that swings like a cedar. When you read about the Leviathan it sounds like some of the sea-dwelling animals that were huge and lived concurrent, I believe, with dinosaurs; and it really starts to make sense that what Job is describing are some of these animals that live in the ocean. What I believe happened to the dinosaurs, and from a biblical perspective, it seems that dinosaurs were land animals and the Bible says land animals were created on Day 6, so they were created with all the other animals.

So then the question is, what happened to them during the flood? They were no doubt on the ark. When you study the flood there really weren't that many species. Everyone is always wanting to claim they've found a new dinosaur, so there are lots of different 'dinosaurs' that are labeled as such out there, but really when you break it down there's only a few kinds of dinosaurs. I think it's around 50 or so. Noah would probably not have taken senior citizen dinosaurs on the ark because he wanted them to reproduce! If he took juvenile dinosaurs onto the ark, dinosaur eggs were very small, even for the large dinosaurs. So you have juvenile dinosaurs on the ark and they wouldn't take up that much space.

Then that explains all the fossils that ...most of the dinosaurs were not on the ark, so they died and were buried, and even the existence of fossil graveyards - which are massive deposits of dinosaur bones all jumbled together - even the fact that those exist indicate a rapid burial, which would have been exactly what we see in the flood conditions. So the dinosaurs probably died during the flood and the reason we don't see dinosaur fossils and human fossils together...first of all, the number of dinosaur fossils and human fossils are very small when you compare them to all the fossils that we do find. Dinosaurs wouldn't have been able to swim or get on rafts, and use escape methods humans could, and so they would be buried first in the flood sequence, and humans would have been near the top layers. There are explanations for all this.

And, finally, when you consider that 'dinosaur' is a very modern word, there's a possibility that dinosaurs were called by a different name, such as dragon. And when you study dragon legends, they're from all over the world. Many cultures have legends of dragons. In "Pyramid of the Ancients" I actually quote from some of the encounters that people had with dragons, and these don't sound like fictional legends. They sound like eye witness accounts of real encounters.

Q: Are you familiar with, just yesterday, the mainstream media reported that the missing link
between man and apes has been found?

A: Another one?! [I read that this one has already been discredited.] Let's see, in May of last year it was Ida. I haven't heard about this latest one. I'd like to mention a couple of things. First, notice that up to this point it's always been MISSING. So what does that tell you? That the whole theory of evolution doesn't have a lot to go on when it comes to proof. One of the points I make in "Logic's End" is that, if evolution were true, we would see tons and tons of evolutional fossils. In fact everything should be transitioning from one to another.

Since they don't have an answer for that, they came up with another theory called 'punctuated equilibrium,' which basically says that evolution happens in spurts. Anyone familiar with the X-Man movies would be familiar with that concept because that's the whole point behind those movies. We've been stagnant for many years, and all of a sudden, Boom! We're evolving into a new kind of human. It's just fascinating to me that they always call it a missing link.

Secondly, when you really think about it, it's just a matter of interpretation. You get one group of scientists who have letters after their names, PhD's, etc., who look at the fossils and say 'this is half human and half ape...and this is why.' And they write all these papers and make all this money from all the hype from it. Then you get other PhD scientists who have all the same letters after their names, who happen to be either middle-of-the-road evolutionists who are very skeptical; or you have some who are creationists proponents, and they look at the exact same fossil, and they say it's an ape, or they say it's a human who has some deformities.

So, again, it goes back to my point of operational science vs. origin science. That when it comes to interpreting these fossils, these fossils don't have name tags with them saying how old they are or what they are. It's all about interpretation, which is based on your bias or your presupposition. So, when it comes to these half human, half ape things it's just a matter of interpretation.

Q: Going back to the Royal Society and this whole idea of aliens, there are those who would look at this news story of this so-called missing link, and would see it as evidence that at one time the earth was visited by flying geniuses, ancient astronauts. And that this is why civilization seems to have appeared overnight in Mesopotamia; that they came here, that they accelerated hominid DNA, apes, and they made homosapiens. Theologians, though, will look at the same kind of evidence, and say maybe this is a leftover of something that the Watchers did in the creation of the Nephilim, by tinkering with human DNA, which then brought about the flood as God's
judgment. Do you buy into either one of those theories?

A: Well, I don't want to give away too much, because that's a lot of what I talk about in book #3. But you're talking about interpretation, and I think it's very possible. God created us humans to be creative. It's a reflection of his nature. And there's good reason to believe that he may have created angels with a lot of knowledge that we, as terrestrial-bound beings, don't have. So I think it's very possible that before the flood, humans could have been given some technology by the angels that we don't have to this day. I believe that, coming from a biblical perspective, that when God created Adam and Eve they probably had 100% use of their brain power. Today we
only have 10%. We've lost that ability. Why would evolution create 90% of a brain that we don't use? After the flood, people still had a lot of that knowledge. Noah and his family would have had all that technology. They knew how to build pyramids. Then after the Tower of Babel when the language was forced dispersion, people began to lose the technological knowledge because they were forced to live in caves and fight for their survival, and follow wherever the herds went. I think God did that on purpose.

Q: These angels would have known at least as much as our scientists know today, who are currently merging humans with animals at the embryonic level; and some of the rogues are going beyond that and raising these beings to full maturity. If men can do this in their own knowledge, then angels who worked side by side with God in creation know enough about genetic manipulation that they could be doing Humans 2.0. In your new book, you talk about the issue of theistic evolution. What is it?

A: That kind of brings this conversation full circle, because that's a lot of what the Vatican is proposing. People who believe in theistic evolution, believe in evolution because they believe what evolution scientists tell them; then they also believe in God because of their personal faith - and so they try to find a way of making the two merge. Which basically says that God used evolution, that God sparked the first life on earth, and then he guided the evolutionary process. He added the genetic information to get a certain outcome. That's where theistic evolution stands.

The problems with it are just huge, especially as it relates to theology. It undermines the authority of the Bible. The Bible says that God created the earth first, and the earth was full of water. And then after that he created the sun. Nothing exploded, by the way, to create everything. Well, according to evolution all these gases exploded, and eventually you had the sun, and after that the earth formed, and it was a molten glob. That's in direct contradiction to the Bible. So, people then say if that part of the Bible is not true, there are other things that aren't true, and the next thing you know it unravels their entire theological background.

And, then, if evolution is true you have dinosaurs living before humans, which means death came before Adam and Eve. The Bible says Adam and Eve sinned, and death came into the world,
and that all creation groans because of their sin. There was cancer in dinosaur bones, and if you have dinosaurs living before humans, then all of a sudden you have to start asking: well, God said that things were very good when he created them, so does he mean cancer is very good? From a
biblical point of view you understand that cancer and death came after Adam and Eve sinned, and that's why there is cancer in dinosaur bones. By the way, speaking of dinosaur bones, they have actually found hemoglobin in blood cells in T-Rex bones, and scientists are baffled as to how those blood cells over millions of years! Another proof that dinosaurs lived with humans.

Q: At the end of your book you also provide some additional scientific evidence, and statistics that back up some of the arguments in the novel, particularly the idea of a young earth. Can you explain that?

A: It goes back to why scientists believe that the earth is billions of years old. Right now they believe it's 4.5 billions of years, and they base that on radio carbon dating and other methods. But those methods have assumptions built into them. If you look at the rates at which we see things occurring, you start to realize that they're cherry picking their data.

Example: the erosion of continents. They estimate that the continents have been around for 3.5 billion years. But every year the erosion is cutting into the rocks and mountains of the continents. All of that eroded sediment enters the oceans by way of the streams and rivers. We can measure the rate at which this occurs, and the rate is 27.5 million tons of sediment per year. Scientists have measured the volume of the continents above sea level to be 383 million billion tons. When you take the amount at which erosion is occurring, and you go backwards in time, the maximum age which our earth could be would be 14 million years, because in that amount of time all of the continents would have been eroded flat. So the fact that we still see erosion happening shows that the earth can't be billions of years old.

Another example: Helium in the atmosphere. Helium forms under the earth's surface and because it's very light weight it comes up through the rock and makes its way to the surface. They can measure the rate at which the helium comes out into the atmosphere, and it's 13 million atoms per square inch, each second. They take that rate, and measure the amount currently in the atmosphere, and if you go backward in time it turns out that the earth cannot be more than 2 million years old. Again, these are maximum ages. That's assuming that there was zero helium in the atmosphere to begin with. So, from our perspective, if God created the atmosphere with a lot of the helium we now, then 6-10,000 years would be very normal for us to get that much.

One other example: The existence of comets. We see comets streaking through space, and yet these comets are basically balls of ice that are burning up. They've determined that these comets can't last more than about 1,000 or so years, and that's for the oldest comet. So, the evolutionist ask how they can answer that, because the fact that we see comets means that comets haven't been around for millions of years. So, evolutionists come up with a hypothetical spherical cloud called the Oort cloud. And they believe that this Oort cloud exists somewhere out in the galaxy and we can't see it yet, of course. And that it's constantly creating new comets. And that's why we see these comets that don't survive very long. Another example of evolutionists cherry picking the evidence, and they're ignoring what I just mentioned, which is observable science, and they're just using the radiometric dates, which are based on bad assumptions.

Q: You also include a list of resources in this novel, and also what are your favorite websites, and what books or videos would you recommend?

A: A lot of stuff can be seen at www.apologeticsfiction.com on our links page. In the back of my novels I have the materials I used for my research. www.answersingenesis.org. and The Institute for Creation Research at
www.icr.org (or com?). The Creation Society of Milwaukee at www.cssmwi.com (or .org?). My goal in my novels is to whet people's appetites, and there's tons of information out there. If you want to read an
action-adventure story, it's a little more interesting to read a novel than just dry information. There are also other author's books listed on my website.

UFO Disclosure/Contact, Part 13 - Dr. Chuck Missler

Continuing information from a recent seminar, "Official Disclosure: Prepare For Contact," featuring top researchers, ex-government agents, world-famous field investigators, physicists and theologians. The post contains info directly from the featured speaker. Questioner is Thomas Horn. Any comments by me will be in brackets []. Very light editing done on Q&As.

Dr. Chuck Missler, Hour 2 of 2.

Dr. Chuck Missler, of Koinonia House (khouse.org). His background is with the Office of Naval Intelligence, where he had top security clearances and was the former Branch Chief of the Board of Guided Missiles and CEO for four defense contractors. He and his wife now teach Bible seminars all over the world, and they have written a number of books. You could say that his areas of expertise are military classified operations and Bible knowledge. In his military career, he was also an expert in cryptography (codes).

Q: What similarities between the history of UFOlogy and demonology have you found in your research?

A: Clearly the whole area of UFOs is a very difficult area because there's so much nonsense and deliberate disinformation. But when you cut through all that you end up discovering that there are accounts that are undeniable. They appear on multiple radar simultaneously, and radars don't have hallucinations. They also leave physical evidence - and it is disturbing, because they apparently violate physical laws. That's why I believe the competent researchers have come to the conclusion that they're hyper-dimensional. Not intergalactic, though that's a common myth. And it's interesting that both Dr. Jacques Vallee and Dr. Hynek refer to them as demonic - strange language for them - and say that they are deceptive.

There's another aspect to this, the military security that surrounds this area. It's disturbing to discover that the UFO area enjoys a higher security classification than our most sensitive warheads. That's probably the biggest mystery about Roswell and all of that; why is that still classified to this day, after all these years? I do know from personal experience that it's the subject of very serious studies. There was something called the Delphi Project for a while in which there were 432 occasions of formation flying that was studied, demonstrating that they were piloted by an intelligence. And there are literally thousands of classified photos. So the area is real, but very difficult to get your arms around because of the security that surrounds it.

Q: In Ch 4 of your book, Alien Encounters, you actually discuss hyper dimensions, parallel universes, super string theory, and talk about Flatland. In fact, I particularly enjoyed the discussion about Mr. and Mrs. Flat and their 2-dimensional world, but it made a great deal of sense when you imagine how disturbing a 3-dimensional exhibition would be to them in their 2-dimensional existence with its physical laws, in the same way we might be impacted when confronted with 5-10 other dimensional representations moving in and out of our reality. Can you talk about that?

A: As you begin to deal with hyperspaces you begin to realize that having more dimensions offers some very unusual properties, and it's very difficult to talk to people about more than 3 dimensions. It requires really special mathematics training. We in the third dimension can be more intimate with the people in that 2-dimensional world than they can be with each other.

That's a provocative thing to consider. It startled me to discover that Salvador Dali had a mathematical sophistication that was shocking. In his painting, "Corpus Christi," he uses and unraveled a 4-dimensional cube into 3 dimensions as his motif for the cross of Christ - the only place I'm aware of that a hidden cube has actually found application. You find them discussed in advanced mathematical treatises, but I was startled to see that Dali was that sophisticated mathematically.

The whole idea of being hyper dimensional is probably (and even point to that, in a sense) from the scripture. Because we discover that Jesus, after his resurrection, had some very peculiar properties in his resurrection body. That night he appears to them. In fact, that afternoon he accompanies these two guys on the Emmaeus Road, which is one of the more colorful passages of scripture, because Jesus Christ is talking about himself in the third person; you quickly realize that Jesus has an interesting sense of humor [Yes!]. But they all re-gather that night in Jerusalem behind closed doors; they're frightened, confused. So they're in a room with four walls, floor and ceiling - 6 sides - and he shows up in the middle of that space. They think they've seen a ghost and he invites them to touch him, saying that a spirit doesn't have flesh and bone as he does. He is obviously very physical, but on the other hand he enjoys a dimensionality that allows him to enter and leave a 6-sided space, apparently without passing through any of the six sides. And that's the kind of thing that only a mathematician can deal with. In fact I've encountered some that argue from that, that he must enjoy at least 11 dimensions.

A careful study of the scripture encounters the whole concept of hyperspaces. In fact, in I John 3:2 we have a very unusual passage; most people don't realize the physics nature of it, where John says, "Beloved, it does not yet appear what we shall be, but we know that when he shall appear we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is." In other words, we won't behold a representation of him - a photo is a 2-dimension representation of a 3-dimensional person. A hologram starts to break that down, but the point is that whatever dimensional reality he enjoys, we apparently will also enjoy. Because we shall see him as he is. So that's where hyper-dimensionality emerges in a form in the scripture.

The whole idea of the Nephilim, etc. may or may not be hyper dimensional, but there are apparently parallels to the world before the flood as described in Gen 6, and the kind of experiences that we will encounter eschatologically. The UFOs apparently are hyper dimensional. One of the questions is: where are they when you're not seeing them? In other words, they're not observed as they do this 'intergalactic' travel. They just suddenly appear; they materialize and dematerialize quickly, so that also lends itself to the perception of it being hyper dimensional, not intergalactic. And there are lots of other reasons why.

Q: There seems to be uniformity to the UFO appearances which makes me believe there are moments in which the entire craft has moved from wherever it is when we can't see it...Bible scholar Gary Stearman who believes that angels materializing may be both good and bad, and he referred to a celestial transportation vehicle and how the angels move in clouds, wheels, chariots, cherubim. In fact he cited I Chron 28:18, which refers to the pattern of the chariot of the cherubim. Do you believe that there's anything to that?

A: Oh, sure. Absolutely, because there have been lots of studies, even by NASA type characters, about the Ezekiel wheels, etc. Most of what I've seen is fanciful and doesn't really follow the text, but those descriptions lend themselves to conjectures about that. No question...by the way, you've put your finger on a very key issue here. It startles me to realize how many so-called 'experts' in demonology fail to perceive the difference between fallen angels and demons. We use the word 'demon' collectively, for the whole area. But being specific, the angels apparently have the ability to materialize, and dematerialize at will, because all through the scripture we find them just showing up. And we presume that the fallen angels have the same skills and substance as the good angels. But, what's interesting is angels, we know from the scripture, can take people by the hand, can engage in combat; one angel slaughters 185,000 Assyrians after dinner one night. You don't mess with angels.

On the other hand, the demons - especially as we encounter them in the NT - appear to be powerless except to the extent that they can influence, and even embody, a person, where they seem to always do mischief, and are a different kind, if you will. That leads to a conjecture by many scholars that the demons are the disembodied spirits of the Nephilim that drowned in the flood, or were killed or died for some other reason. And many people jump to the defensible conclusion that the whole idea of the Nephilim was Satan's way of 'increasing his horses.' We know from Rev 12 that 1/3 of the angels fell with Satan, so he's got a problem. He's got a 2 to 1 minority, and angels do not normally reproduce. But apparently through the antics of Gen 6 and others, they found a way to create a hybrid, and that hybrid apparently has utility to their agenda on the one hand; but on the other hand when it dies you've got a spirit now, that is a malevolent spirit of some kind ... that may be the demons. That is a conjecture, but does seem to be consistent with what we think we know from the scripture. That idea was very widely appreciated during the Dark Ages, because there's all kind of folk lore that accompanies - the incubus and all that business. But with staying with the scripture you can still build a case.

Q: Wasn't that the common position up until around the 5th Century, of what had happened with the Gen 6 story?

A: Yes, Africanus and others concocted the "Sethite" view, as a way of avoiding the discomfort and spookiness of what the text indicated, and this twisting of the scripture emerged. In fact there's about 12 different aspects of the scripture that shreds the Sethite view, but it doesn't matter. What's interesting about that view is that it's not only taught in seminaries, but it's the only view that's typically taught. We've encountered a number of senior executives in the Christian publishing trade who went to seminary, and when they encountered our book they got really angry - not at me - but angry when they realized that this view hadn't even been presented to them, what they felt should have been presented. What offended them was that the seminary environment doesn't even typically present the angel view of Genesis 6. They just present the Sethite view as if that is the rational accommodation of the text's message - which it isn't, by the way. The more you study that, the more you realize it does violence to what the text actually says.

Q: I'm living proof of that. My formal training was the Sethite view. And then over a long period of time, and just being honest about the scripture - and, by the way, even extra-biblical texts - none of them support the Sethite view. They all support this ancient story that this was an angelic experience. You mentioned the hologram; you have another book called Cosmic Codes, in which you talk about things like quantum teleportation, the universe as a hologram. Is that in any way related to this discussion of ET and hyperdimensions?

A: Oh, sure. Absolutely. Most people who write in that area have no background in cryptography, so that's one reason I think the book has done so well, because we have a tutorial in front, to really get into the manipulation of information. We discover the kinds of codes that we find in the Bible, and the manipulation we see in the DNA, are the same design. That's shocking enough. So it's a very provocative thing to realize that the frontier of every science today, whether it's microbiology or astrophysics, is really in the area of information - the information sciences. In microbiology the big issue isn't microbes in the traditional sense; it's really the coding - and we discover the DNA is a 3-out-of-4 error-correcting code. There's probably not one engineer in a thousand that knows how to design an error-correcting code. An error-detecting code, yes. The point is the sophistication of the information environment is staggering. So the Cosmic Codes does touch on the information side of this.

As far as quantum teleportation, most of those things in today's world are still pretty conjectural and they really depend a great deal on having some background, especially in particle physics. In fact, that's the other thing. Let's touch on that. One of the things that we all take for granted is this physical universe. We lay our hand on a desk, and it's firm, solid. It's kind of interesting if you take a look at the hydrogen atom. The ratio between the size of the nucleus and the size of the ostensible orbit of the electron is about 10 to the fifth power, which means if you were going to build a scale model of the hydrogen atom and use a golf ball as the nucleus, your electron would be three football fields away! It turns out that the 10 to the fifth ratio is just the linear difference. If you take the area of that you have to square it, so that would be 10-to-the-10th. If you want to deal with the volume you have to cube it, so if I say this desk is solid, and you said there's really nothing there ... you're more correct than I am, by the same ratio as one second has to 32,000 years. [I love this stuff. If I had my life to live over I might have gone into physics.] In other words, we suddenly realize that the universe that we're in, is actually an electrical simulation.

There was an article in the Scientific American in June 2005 about the constancy of constants. It turns out that some of the so-called constants of physics, scientists are now beginning to discover, may be changing. And that's got them alarmed because "that demonstrates that our physical reality is but a shadow of a larger reality." [We may see through a glass even more darkly than we imagined...]

Now just a few weeks ago in New Scientist, there's an interesting discovery.There's a project in Germany called the GEO600, and there's a huge contraption that they're trying to measure gravity with, and they've been frustrated because they have encountered a kind of noise. And the head of a lab in Illinois wrote them a letter that has caused an exchange of ideas, and what they think they have discovered is the granularity of the hologram - recognizing that the universe is really some kind of gigantic hologram. So, what's interesting about these frontier issues is we're beginning to realize that what we think of as physical reality is really a digital simulation; that we actually find ourselves in a virtual reality; and that the real reality is something larger, something more ephemeral, something less tangible to us. And the particle physicists seem to concur with this because they believe they have now discovered that we live in four discernible dimensions, three spatial - length, width and height - and the fourth is time. But those are four out of an actual ten; in other words there are six other dimensions that we're aware of only indirectly, because you could only discover those by some indirect techniques.

What makes that amusing to me is that's exactly what Maimonides - the 13th Century Hebrew sage - concluded from Genesis 1 that the universe has ten dimensions, four "knowable, and six not knowable." He did it from textual gymnastics, and it's interesting that he came to the same conclusion as we have by spending millions of dollars on atomic accelerators, and all he used was the text. The point is as we start dealing with things like UFOs or things like angelic beings the more sophisticated we are in terms of our understanding of hyperspaces, the more normal those things strike us as being. So a lot of our difficulties in trying to understand these issues, part of our problem, is that most of us haven't had the occasion to really study the nature or the boundaries of our own reality. The more you know about the frontiers of science, the more comfortable some of those concepts are.

Q: The Sumerians, referring to them as 'super geniuses', indicated that they had a method to manipulate science so they could move in and out of our reality. For those people who don't understand the angel view, the history of the Watchers, I want to make sure today that we have you explain the Watchers.

A: The Watchers are a little more elusive, but the key text for all of this subject matter is Gen 6. Many people fail to realize it's all one sentence (v. 1&2). "It came to pass when men began to multiply on the face of the earth and daughters were born unto them, that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were fair, and took them wives of all whom they chose." That's all one sentence. "Sons of God" is a term in the Hebrew that's used throughout the OT as a reference to a direct creation of God - namely, an angel. If you look at the Greek translation that was done three centuries before the Christian era, the Greek is very precise and they called
them what they were, angels. "The sons of God saw the daughters of men."Notice they weren't daughters of a subclass of men; it was men in general. That's important for another reason.

In any case, what they did when you get to the 4th verse..."there were giants in the earth in those days, and also after that when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them. The same became the mighty men, which were of old, men of renown." The mighty men were the gibborum. The word 'giants' there, in the English translation is actually a transliteration of of the Greek term 'gigantes' which doesn't mean giants, actually; it means 'earthborn.' They were giants, but that turns out to be incidental. In the Hebrew the word is 'nephilim,' which comes from the verb meaning 'the fallen ones.' The point is, what apparently happens here is that these fallen angels found a way somehow to create a hybrid, a creature that was abnormal called the Nephilim. And this was the causation of the flood of Noah, because there was a gene pool problem.

And that's what God does, he starts over. He picks eight. This event is recorded in virtually all the ancient cultures, and it's a widely understood view. In fact, in the Greek mythology you have the Titans, the gods, and the demigods, and they embody the same kinds of notions. The American Indians have these same traditions. What most people miss, in verse 4 it says "there were giants in the earth in those days, and also after that."

What many people don't realize, it didn't just happen before the flood. It apparently happened in the land of Canaan in anticipation of the return from Egypt. God had told Abraham that his people would be away for four centuries and then they would come back to the land. Well, that gave Satan four centuries to lay down a mine field. And, later, when Moses came to Kadesh-Barnea, and they sent in the 12 spies, in Numbers 13:33 it says there were Nephilim in the land in those days again. So the fallen angels again found a way to create these hybrids. And those angels are referred to three times in the NT as being incarcerated for a specific destiny. So, it's a spooky kind of thing to deal with, but it is the biblical text, and it's not confined to just Gen 6.

You really can't understand a number of aspects of the OT saga unless you understand the role these
strange creatures play. And why Joshua was instructed to wipe out every man, woman and child of four specific tribes. It's interesting as you study the book of Judges you find out that they didn't quite do what they were supposed to do. And if you study Judges geographically you discover that the areas where they failed to follow through and do what God said was an area along the coast, up in the NE (in Bashan), known today as Gaza, the Golan Heights and the West Bank. It's interesting that those same regions where they failed to destroy them, are still in dispute even to this day. That's why many writers - George Otis and others - have made the point that these things are strangely territorial, and that's always puzzled me because I would have thought these creatures that are beyond our physics wouldn't be necessarily constrained to any kind of geography. But apparently they are, and there seems to be evidence of that in the biblical texts. Daniel 10 and elsewhere.

The reason, of course, that all of this sparks our interest is because Jesus, in the Olivet Discourse, when he's giving an inside briefing to his four insiders about the second coming, said that as the days of Noah were, so shall the days of the coming of the Son of Man be. So whatever was going on there, will be intensified again near the end. And that's one reason so many people who have a biblical interest take the trouble to try to understand these issues. And there are a number of places where we find allusions to these kinds of creatures, even a little more ambiguous in terms of what is their role and what are they doing? The whole area of human reproduction seems to be at the core of this. That's why when you start studying these abduction issues that's probably the spookiest part of the whole study, because we discover among professional practitioners, they encounter people who have apparently had some very bizarre experiences - too bizarre to accept, and yet too consistent to deny.

Dr. John Mack is perhaps the most articulate spokesman for that area. I think he dealt with 176 of these cases. His point is (in his book?) that they are all above average intelligence, they have no prior psychiatric history, they have clearly been subjected to some kind of trauma, and there are details to their stories that are surprisingly consistent and disturbing. And these are people that would just as soon hide or bury these things because it destroys their lives. They get tagged as kooks and nuts, and you really have to draw out from them the details of what apparently transpired.

Q: And in many of those cases - you mentioned about manipulation of DNA - there is physical evidence to removal of ovum, scoop marks in their skin.

A: I ran into one where there was bone biopsies, and the person was not aware of it. And that clouded their credibility with the investigators because normally you couldn't have something like that, a very intrusive procedure, without being aware of it. But it turns out that those cases become very coveted case studies. One of the things that seems to be the agenda is a probing of the human reproduction system, and one of the conjectures that arises is that in the old days, back in Noah's day, when they indulged in whatever they do they ended up getting giants.

One of the things that may be going on is that as they do the same thing today the hybrids that they generate are diminutive, 3' high little green men or whatever. And what may be the difficulty they're encountering is the degeneration of the human genome. They find wheat seeds in the pyramids in Egypt and plant them, and they grow, amazingly enough, but they also have amino acids that we never even knew existed. And so there is a view by some that there has been a degeneration over the centuries, so they don't get the results that they did centuries ago. Who knows? We're suddenly in the area of fringe conjectures here. Dr. John Mack had a conference on this at MIT and he challenged the audience. He said if what these people are saying happened to the ISN'T happening, what is? Because there's too much consistency in these episodes to deny their existence, and yet the whole concept is disturbing to anyone.

Q: And then, of course, there is in the protoevangelium and in the OT the concept of the seed of Christ being in opposition to the seed of Satan. And then others like G.H. Pember who said the last days would repeat this invasion of Nephilim spirits and their influence upon the earth. It does make you wonder if this collection of biological matter - and it also includes animals - and there are tens of thousands of cases, so something definitely is happening. In your opinion is there some connection to these end time prophecies?

A: There's an interesting allusion in Daniel 2. We all remember the metal image of gold, silver, bronze and iron; and then there's the iron mixed with clay. And when Daniel is explaining those symbols in verse 43, as to the miry clay - the problem is that it's in Aramaic rather than Hebrew - but miry clay is clay made from dust; it tends to be brittle, is the idea. But he says, "as for the miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men" ... and it won't adhere. That's a very strange phrase, because he shifts to a personal pronoun: "they" shall mingle themselves with the seed of men. Grammatically, what that requires is that the 'they' are something OTHER than the seed of men ... in order to mingle with the seed of men. So, that immediately leads to the question of who 'they' would be. And there are two possibilities. 1) They are Nephilim, again, and not the seed of men. 2) The other possibility is that they are clones. I don't embrace #2 particularly, but the idea that 'they' refers to Nephilim seems to me more probable. But, whatever 'they' are, they emerge in an end time sense in a very distinctive way. And they apparently are prolific enough to be a meaningful demographic of society, because they're a significant factor in describing the rise and fall of these empires.

Q: Regarding alien abduction there is evidence that these have been stopped by calling on the name of Jesus.

A: I had an interesting experience when "Alien Abduction" first came out (one of his books). When I was doing radio interviews, I got a call from Hollywood from a producer there, and that always startles me because I don't travel in that crowd. He said that he knew a lot about this area, but was disturbed because I took the position that a Christian can't be abducted, and he said 'you need to do some homework and check the Andreasson affair..." Betty Andreasson is one of the classic examples, apparently a Christian in a spirit-filled fellowship and all of that, and she apparently had a couple of creatures in the middle of the night who took her off into an experience of some kind. But if you read her affidavit very, very closely it turns out that she wasn't abducted; they invited her, and she accepted their invitation [enough said...], and I take the position that that's not an abduction.

In fact, in our book that's what we try to point out to people. If they have some kind of encounter, they should not be bluffed, and they should not accept an invitation. I also argue they should not allow themselves to be hypnotized, and we have a little checklist in the back of the book that I would call spiritual hygiene. We have found out that those people who are Christians that have some kind of UFO experience - in every one we've investigated, the person involved had occultic involvement prior to accepting Christ.

I remember Hal Lindsay and another fellow and I had a deep discussion about this back in those days, and one of the conclusions that we came to, as we compared notes...the classical procedure to accept Christ in the formal churches used to include a renunciation of Satan, all his works and ways, as part of the procedure of accepting Christ. It was an explicit renunciation of any prior involvement with Satan. We don't do that anymore. We're so anxious for someone to come down the sawdust trail, that we fail to realize that there may be something deeper that needs to be dealt with, and the idea of an explicit renunciation of the history - whether it's a piece of property or whether it's a person - seems to be a required element that should accompany what we're doing. [This is critically important. The will of the individual is key to demonic possession and tampering. Many of these people have generational demons that are passed down. Sometimes they aren't even aware of it, so this renunciation should always be done, especially in this time when demonic activity is so prolific.]

Q: Are there factors that would make a person more likely to experience abduction, either personal behavior or even, some people believe you can have material items in your possession; you don't want to get rid of them but maybe these items could even invite these kinds of things.

A: Could be. [They absolutely do invite them.] I think this gets into the whole issue of the occult. And there is good scriptural reason to separate yourself from objects of that kind. A lot of people when they travel to Polynesia or Asia or somewhere will pick up one of the religious objects as mementos. [These so-called mementos are often laden with a curse.] Many people saw The Exorcist, which was written about a true situation which started with a person messing around with a ouija board. That seems harmless enough, but it isn't. [It's extremely dangerous as an entry point.]

These things are called entries. Dungeons and Dragons and such role playing games [and now video games, also] may be more dangerous than people are generally aware, because they can provide an entry to these malevolent beings. So, they do seem to need an entry. [It's all about a person's will - these entities harp on this all the time, how they must get the person's legal consent. They operate under this sanction, and if you read much about this subject you find that the demonic world greatly resents this restriction, but they are bound by it.]

Q: The reason I asked that is because you had said that in your research, in every case of abduction that each one of these people in one way or another had some kind of occultic past. Also, a lot of these abductees also claim that they're receiving messages that are being channeled to them by aliens. Is there some common theme to that?

A: Yes, that's one of the things I believe was one of the reasons that both Jacque Vallee and Hynek came to the conclusion that they were malevolent, because those messages betray an intention to deceive, and that's contrary to the popular folk lore. A lot of people think that these UFO beings are here to help us, give us new technology, whatever. That's in total contrast to what the real experience is from the records. That's one of the reasons that someone who is biblically literate the things take a very clear posture of being malevolent, not helpful.

Q: Also, some prophecy students believe that if there is in the future some grand UFO alien manifestation - some armada of ships filling the sky - that this could play a role in great deception. Are you one of those people?

A: Yes, probably so. Because one of the most difficult things in biblical theology is this whole issue of the harpazo - the rapture of the church - and there's just no way to imagine what that will be like. In other words, it has to be the most preposterous doctrine in fundamental Christianity, on the one hand. But, I'm reminded of what Richard Fayman/Thayman (sp?) of Cal Tech ... he has a similar situation; he talks about particle physics - and he says the quantum theory in particle physics is absolutely ridiculous; the only thing it has going for it is that it happens to be unquestionably correct.

The harpazo, the rapture, is such a strange idea. Unfortunately, though, it is very clearly so described by Paul in I Thess 4 and I Cor 15, and this may surprise some people, but you can actually find it alluded to in 3-4 places in the OT. But the point is that trying to visualize the Father, Son and Holy Spirit saying, "Go get 'em," and the gathering of the church - that's got to be the biggest shock that the earth ever had or ever will have.

Some people think there's going to be an awful lot of people raptured; others say probably not as many as we think, but the point is that there are attempts, apparently, in the New Age world to almost lay down the cover story. And we talk about that in the book (which one?), because Mark Eastman (the co-author) took that on and got some people to really wade through the New Age literature and took up the strange attempts to anticipate it. The idea being that's it's the Christian's commitment to these beliefs is that standing in the way of man's progress, and the people who hold these Christian view have to be gotten out of the way in order for mankind to move to the next level. So they have these various contrived explanations which would seem to be an attempt to explain the sudden disappearance. [New Age literature going back at least as far as Helen Blavatsky talk about this very thing. The Christians are their greatest problem - this is a universal theme - and all of their occult literature, right up to the present, says that the Christians will need to be 'removed to another dimension' because they will thwart the plans for a 'peaceful and loving' world. And, to add insult to injury, they can't nail down the time of this event. I believe the manifestation of the UFO 'landing' will be used as some sort of ploy to explain away the rapture. It's unclear of the exact timing of this planned event, but it's possible it will be immediately following the rapture - although there isn't agreement on this issue.]

Q: And to deceive the world...

A: Yes, you put your finger on it. A very key point. The one thing we really do understand, from the scripture cover to cover, is that Satan's primary weapon is deceit. He is the Deceiver. And, in fact, there's even a specific reference to a specific lie in 2 Thess 2, that God will send them a strong delusion that they should believe 'the' lie (it says 'a' lie in the KJV but it's actually a definite article: 'the' lie), and it's a very specific delusion that God will allow him to spring. And, that's the other thing, by the way ... it's my personal suspicion that the whole reason that the rapture is not timed - everything else in eschatology, if you do your homework you can sort of
sequence, at least.

But the one thing that is elusive is the timing of the harpazo, and it's my personal suspicion that it's designed to catch Satan by surprise [absolutely; my suspicion, too], because when that springs, Satan knows he's got a short window of time to do whatever he's going to do. I think part of the dynamics here is to catch him by surprise. So that, to me, is the ultimate refutation of these people who try to set dates and have their little charts and diagrams, and they have their hypothesis about the possible dates, etc. I'm also starting to get in some of these interviews 'what about 2012?'

Q: Right now, evangelical institutions, mostly, are leaving the question of ET, astrobiology, whatever, to the Vatican, to the History Channel, to Hollywood, and all of the above is fashioning a very specifically tuned kind of answer that goes along with what you were saying a moment ago that seems to be kind of a setup for delusion, for deception. My question is: why - for the most part - are evangelical institutions not addressing this issue? I was a pastor for 25 years; I realize you have to feed the sheep. You can't get up and talk about UFOs every week [!], but you also do need to have some position on the contemporary issues of the world. If you don't, they're going to hear from a Wiccan or anybody else that can provide them some kind of an answer. Why is that happening, and do you think the time has come for evangelical ministries to be willing to at least have some position on this??

A: Oh, absolutely. [I couldn't agree more strongly.]I think eschatology is not a peripheral issue. It's a very central issue. I think that eschatology is so challenging to a pastor because, unlike some of the other areas, it really requires a grasp of the whole counsel of God. You can't indulge in one-verse theology, with eschatology especially. That's one reason it's so challenging, and that's why many pastors are intimidated by trying to even tackle it.

But there's another side to this that I think is very interesting. I believe your eschatological view will derive from your hermeneutics. If you really take the Bible seriously, take it literally, you tend to move to the high view of the Scripture - in contrast to what I'll call the 'soft' view, hermeneutically; that you think it's just allegorical, symbolic, fine. If I know your hermeneutics, I can predict where you come out eschatologically. [Yes.] And, from your eschatology you really get your ecclesiology. You know, the seven letters to the churches, it lays out in advance the whole ecclesiastic history of the planet earth, and if I know from your ecclesiology, that closes the loop and determines your hermeneutics. If you have a very high view of scripture...the point is, it's circular. In the sixty years I've studied the Bible, again and again I've had to amend my views as I learn more. But it's always been in the direction of taking it even more seriously than I did before. I discovered so many things that are hidden.

In today's world, with the information we have you can get to the Hebrew or Greek without knowing the languages because the software is available free of charge. So we have the availability of the Word of God that's more available to the average person than ever before in the history of the world. So we're without excuse to really do our homework. But I think the field of eschatology is tragically shunned by many because it is challenging because it really does impose a grasp of God's whole program from beginning to end. It's not just end times. [This is my greatest fear, that the church is not dealing with Satan's contemporary deceits to any extent whatever. This leaves the sheep wide open to him.]

http://www.khouse.org/ - Missler's main website (Koinonia House)
http://www.studycenter.com/ - Missler's online campus for Christians

_______________________END

Royal Heir

UFO Disclosure/Contact, Part 11 - B. David Ruffino

Continuing information from a recent seminar, "Official Disclosure: Prepare For Contact," featuring top researchers, ex-government agents, world-famous field investigators, physicists and theologians. The post contains info directly from the featured speaker. Questioner is Thomas Horn. Any comments by me will be in brackets []. Very light editing done on Q&As.

B. David Ruffino is a well-known UFO researcher with over 45 years of background in the subject. He is an alien abduction counsellor, an ordained minister, and he has spoken in Roswell, on radio shows, and is the author of "Unholy Communion." How important is this book? Dr. Michael Heiser, in his endorsement, says: "If even 10% of the witnesses in this book are honest about what happened to them - and, in particular, how they were rescued from their torment, then David and Joseph [co-author] have earned the right to be heard."

Q: Are we alone? I want to ask you what you think of the tremendous and unprecedented amount of UFO and ET news coming out all at once, including at the Royal Society meetings in London, where the Royal Astronomer to the Queen of England actually said that aliens are staring us in the face, and we may not even know it?
A: If you look at it from my standpoint, a theological one, you can say the same thing the Royal Astronomer said. I believe these things are inter-dimensional ... spiritual ... sure, they're looking at us all the time. They're in another dimension, but they're looking at us. The Bible tells us that we're surrounded by a great host of witnesses, referring to the spiritual realm. So, certainly I agree with what he says, but we have different ideas on who they are and what their purposes are. Sometimes people who make these statements try to say that we are the aliens, that we were brought to earth a long time ago as seeds planted by the aliens, etc.

Q: The one thing that is nice is to finally see the top tier, the scientific community if you will, starting to take this phenomenon as real and saying that it deserves the kind of credible research that people like you have been doing in the past. Maybe now they are beginning to catch up. But I want to know what you think. So tell us what it is that you do in this field of study.
A: My wife and I run a ministry on the internet where we expose different things in society that we believe to be part of the strong delusion the Bible talks about that will be coming upon the earth in the last days. Jesus says the last days will be like the days of Noah just before the flood. One of the parallels we see is the alien abduction phenomenon, as it correlates with before the flood when the fallen angels legally married human women, and produced the Nephilim, the giants mentioned in the Bible. We want to show that what is happening today did happen before, and as Ecclesiastes says, there's nothing new under the sun. We want to help people to be prepared.

We also have a ministry called Paranormal and Alien Abduction Problem Solvers, Int'l (PAAPSI), where we counsel and guide people who have had alien abduction experiences, and they want it to be gone. Believe it or not, some people enjoy being abducted by aliens. But we counsel the people who have been harmed by it psychically, physically, spiritually and in many other ways. They want it to end, and we believe, as proven by the evidence, that we know the way out.

Q. Some people want to be abducted?
A: Two reasons. 1. Everyone wants to be wanted and needed, and these entities fulfill that need by saying they're special and they have a special mission for them. 2. Sort of a codependency.

Q: First time I've ever heard anyone say that. But, now that I think about it, I've met many abused people who fall into those categories. ... Some scientists think these things may not be so benign. What was the impetus on writing the book? Unholy Communion.
A: Heaven's Gate really opened a lot of eyes. Showed us that this thing was not innocuous, but deadly serious. If we can prevent even one leader or person from starting with this stuff it will be worth it. And that's why we started our ministries. A lot of people [ministers; seminars, etc.] said they were fallen angels, or whatever, but then they left and never followed up and ministered to these people. That's why the Mormons and Jehovah's Witness started...just enough information to make them dangerous. So we wanted to actually minister to them. And it's a specific ministry, very rewarding just to always be there to help them. [He said a lot more about the ministry, and it was immediately evident that he truly has the heart of a pastor and loves his work.]

Q: What was the youngest abductee?
A: Late teens, early twenties.

Q: You're also a minister, so is this like a congregation without walls? Ministering to individuals, even if they have a local church they can't really go to their church and talk about it much.
A: Yes, we minister to them at all hours and spend as much time as they need, even if it's 2-3 hours late at night. It's a great joy, a special calling of sorts. A lot of them aren't particularly of a church background, anyway. And a lot of the churches look at it as spooky.

Q: How do traditional pastors accept what you do?
A: I spent 25 yrs looking for a ministry in a church. Wagging heads, snickers, giggles was all I got. They weren't interested in that type of ministry. These people will not be prepared for what's coming. Our prayer is that these people don't fall away [mine, too], because it will be a great deception when it comes. Little by little, people are beginning to wake up, it seems.

Q: I do know about mission fields, numbers, etc. Statistically, we know that hundreds of thousands per year are experiencing this?
A: Great numbers. Teams are beginning to form that can address that particular mission field. It's a growing field - for abductees and for people prepared to help them. The growth on both sides is running neck and neck. There is even beginning to be support among some pastors.

Q: What do Christians in general think about it?
A: Just like the pastors. Some are starting to wake up, but the other half think we're wack jobs. People put their heads in the sand when it's something they don't understand. This is going to get a lot worse...so as it becomes more visible, more people will be open to dealing with it.

Q: How do you deal with people like that?
A: I'm not very subtle. I just tell them it's true and they need to be aware of it or they're in danger. The big churches have their own agendas, too. It's the smaller churches that seem to be more open. It was the same way for Jesus. You can't really tippy toe; you have to meet it head on.

Q: UFO community is a religion (New Age).
A: Most of them are in a hierarchical organization, if in one at all. The UFO community is the same way. Aliens, evangelists, channelers with messages, prophets. Same deal. It's a parallel religion. Heb 1:11. And the common man believes everything they say. [There are few who know what is going on. We have a huge responsibility to be watchmen and alert people, and few really want truth.]

Q: In 2008 you and Joe Jordan did a Roswell presentation that caused a real stir [among the UFO attendees]. Why?
A: We challenged their philosophy by presenting the aliens as demonic, and putting them on trial - their beliefs. So they were hostile. They didn't like being challenged, and you can bring up any religion at all except Christianity and Jesus. And Judaism. The world doesn't want accountability; they want a god that answers to them, one that is flexible. You could sense the alarms going off in the audience. They don't want truth. Itching ears.

Q: In the book you talk about something astonishing, that Jesus had encounters with aliens.
A: We make the assertion that these entities are the same ones that have always been around - he dealt with casting out demons, demoniacs...the same ones. They're all one and the same. If you look at the effect he had on the demons - and the effect his name has now - it's the exact same thing [he is so correct about this; it's an extremely important principle]. His name and power have the same effect now. With some people you have to be very subtle in making the connection between aliens and demons; they're not prepared to hear about Jesus. Only through the Holy Spirit can you navigate this area. I can often tell them exactly what the demons are saying [he's referring to the counterfeit theology they teach] ... and they see that if Jesus reveals this information....HE must be the true one.

Q: How you employ this careful analysis, confronting preconceived ideas, and ultimately no book has never been approached this way...almost a scientific investigation. You prove cause and effect...evidence..connect the dots. But most astonishing is how the name of Jesus emerges at the end of the book as the one thing that works with the entities. Great for the faith community. Only one name makes everyone bow. This may clear things up with Christians. Is this phenomenon psychic, physical or spiritual?
A: All of the above. Joe has actually been there when they've been catatonic; and when they come back [to full consciousness] they have a message. And sometimes the abductee says the entities are ticked off with Joe because the entities know who he is [I had to chuckle at this - "I know Jesus, and I know about Paul".... and these demonic entities know the people who discern who they are.] Now it's done [breeding, etc.] in labs and stuff instead of through marriage, but the Lord predicted this.

Q: Days of Noah...G.H. Pember's book ... analyzes Jesus prophecy, and he outlined how 'the 7th and most fearful sign' as being the appearance on earth of the Nephilim. Written in 1800s. [I have this book, "Earth's Earliest Ages," and it's an amazing book.] And now we have the Vatican etal.
A: This is a sign of the days of Noah - the Vatican - I have quite an alarm raised there because they influence over 1 billion people and are going to be told this is okay, they'll fall for it and be deceived. [I agree with him. The Vatican has many Satan worshippers and Masons at the highest levels, and I believe they are in league with the demonic forces.]
Webs: http://www.delusionresistance.org/, http://www.paapsi.org/

Royal Heir